Byzantium as Rome
The discussion opens by rejecting the idea that Byzantium was a separate civilization. Kaldellis argues the so called Byzantine Empire was the Roman Empire continuing in the East.
#498 – Anthony Kaldellis: Roman Empire, Byzantine Empire, Rise & Fall of Empires
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Anthony Kaldellis is a historian of the Roman Empire and author of “The New Roman Empire”, a comprehensive history of the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire). Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep498-sc …
Anthony Kaldellis is a historian of the Roman Empire and author of “The New Roman Empire”, a comprehensive history of the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire). Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep498-sc https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep498-sc See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. Transcript: https://lexfridman.com/anthony-kaldellis-transcript https://lexfridman.com/anthony-kaldellis-transcript CONTACT LEX: Feedback – give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey https://lexfridman.com/survey AMA – submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama https://lexfridman.com/ama Hiring – join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring https://lexfridman.com/hiring Other – other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact https://lexfridman.com/contact EPISODE LINKS: Anthony’s Books: https://amzn.to/49AX7Q1 https://amzn.to/49AX7Q1 Anthony’s Publications: https://kaldellispublications.weebly.com https://kaldellispublications.weebly.com Anthony’s University of Chicago page: https://classics.uchicago.edu/people/anthony-kaldellis https://classics.uchicago.edu/people/anthony-kaldellis The New Roman Empire (book): https://amzn.to/3PTFTqk https://amzn.to/3PTFTqk Streams of Gold (book): https://amzn.to/4fgRMRq https://amzn.to/4fgRMRq Byzantium & Friends Podcast: https://byzantiumandfriends.podbean.com/ https://byzantiumandfriends.podbean.com/ The History of Byzantium Podcast: https://thehistoryofbyzantium.com/ https://thehistoryofbyzantium.com/
Key Topics
- Byzantium as Rome
- Long Arc of Roman History
- Gradual Change vs Fixed Dates
- What Made Romans Roman
- Roman Pride and Social Consensus
- Comparing Romans Across Centuries
- Imperial Persona and Public Service
- Civil War as Political Check
- Popular Politics in Constantinople
- Caracalla and Universal Citizenship
- Crisis of the Third Century
- Diocletian's Reconstruction
- Taxation as the Core System
- Constantine and the New Capital
- Constantine and Christianity
- Christianization as a Long Process
- Religion as Unity and Conflict
- Growth of Constantinople
- Why the West Fell
- Why the East Survived
- Government Structure in the East
- Eunuchs and Court Power
- No Isolated Peasants
- A Monarchic Republic
- Military Power Without Social Repression
- Justinian's Contradictory Legacy
- Roman Law and Lasting Influence
- The Justinianic Plague Debate
- Heraclius and the Persian War
- Arab Conquests and Imperial Retrenchment
- Greek Fire and Strategic Survival
- Iconoclasm Reconsidered
- Cycles of Crisis and Recovery
- The Eleventh Century Crisis
- When Final Decline Began
- Why the Empire Lasted So Long
- Lessons for Modern States
- Human Nature and Historical Continuity
- Hope, Scale, and Historical Perspective
Long Arc of Roman History
As context, they sketch Rome from kings to republic to imperial monarchy. The Roman state is framed as a continuous political story lasting from early antiquity to 1453.
Gradual Change vs Fixed Dates
Many famous dates are treated as labels for long processes rather than sharp breaks. The split of East and West and the fall of the West are presented as gradual transformations.
What Made Romans Roman
Roman identity is described as political before it is ethnic or cultural. Continuity came from membership in a state and a shared narrative, not from one language or religion.
Roman Pride and Social Consensus
Elite authors sometimes expressed strong pride in being Roman. More broadly, imperial cohesion rested on a practical consensus that rule, taxation, and protection formed a mutual bargain.
Comparing Romans Across Centuries
Romans from distant eras would look very different from one another. Yet shared institutions like military oaths and Roman law created recognizable continuity across time.
Imperial Persona and Public Service
The late Roman state projected an image of rulers as responsive, accountable, and tirelessly devoted to subjects. Kaldellis argues this was not empty language but part of how the system held together.
Civil War as Political Check
Emperors had immense formal power but were highly vulnerable to coups and rebellions. Because rulers could be overthrown violently, they had incentives to keep subjects and elites broadly satisfied.
Popular Politics in Constantinople
The hippodrome and other public spaces acted as arenas of ongoing political feedback. Crowds could cheer, boo, petition, and sometimes force emperors to reverse decisions.
Caracalla and Universal Citizenship
The Edict of Caracalla extended Roman citizenship to nearly all free inhabitants of the empire. Its importance lies not just in the decree, but in the fact that the empire enforced it seriously.
Crisis of the Third Century
The third century combined civil war, invasions, inflation, plague, and fractured authority. Even so, the crisis is presented as uneven, with some regions continuing ordinary life despite turmoil at the top.
Diocletian's Reconstruction
Diocletian stabilized the empire by building bigger government, stronger taxation, and a multi emperor system. His reforms created the late Roman administrative framework that shaped the eastern empire for centuries.
Taxation as the Core System
Throughout the conversation, taxation is treated as the central mechanism of imperial cohesion. Census, revenue, military funding, and local integration all depended on a dense fiscal structure.
Constantine and the New Capital
Constantine emerged from civil war and founded Constantinople on a strategic crossroads. The city became a new Roman center that unified the eastern Mediterranean politically and geographically.
Constantine and Christianity
Constantine's adoption of Christianity is presented as a world changing decision. Rather than Christianity simply conquering Rome, the empire absorbed and reorganized the religion within imperial structures.
Christianization as a Long Process
The empire did not become fully Christian overnight. Conversion took centuries and spread through incentives, legal pressures, institutions, ritual, and the growing prestige of imperial support.
Religion as Unity and Conflict
Christianity gave the empire a strong shared identity while also generating internal conflict over doctrine. Kaldellis stresses that religion was both a unifying force and a source of division.
Growth of Constantinople
Constantinople's rise from a modest city to a giant capital depended on migration, elite relocation, and imperial provisioning. Its expansion reflected a major eastward shift in Roman power and investment.
Why the West Fell
The western empire is described as collapsing through a vicious cycle of invasions, territorial loss, and shrinking revenue. Once provinces were lost, the state could no longer fund the armies needed to recover them.
Why the East Survived
The East benefited from geography, fortifications, and stronger fiscal endurance. More importantly, local communities continued to see Roman rule as their natural political home.
Government Structure in the East
The eastern empire combined military organization, civilian administration, law, and church institutions. Its government was large, layered, and deeply involved in daily social and economic life.
Eunuchs and Court Power
Eunuchs played major roles in palace administration and sometimes in high politics or military command. Their importance came from proximity to the emperor and dependence on imperial favor rather than family networks.
No Isolated Peasants
Kaldellis rejects the image of disconnected rural populations living outside state reach. Taxation, coinage, churches, calendars, and law tied even remote communities into imperial structures.
A Monarchic Republic
The empire is described as both monarchical and republican in Roman terms. It had an emperor, but rulers were still expected to serve the common good of the polity.
Military Power Without Social Repression
Although emperors controlled large armies, they rarely used them for routine domestic repression. This distinguishes the empire from a simple military dictatorship and points to deeper political legitimacy.
Justinian's Contradictory Legacy
Justinian is portrayed as brilliant, destructive, transformative, and hard to classify. He codified Roman law, built monumental works, reconquered territory, and also overextended the empire and ruled brutally.
Roman Law and Lasting Influence
Justinian's legal codification became the main surviving body of Roman law. Its concepts of property, contract, family, and legal order shaped later European civil law traditions.
The Justinianic Plague Debate
The plague is acknowledged as real and serious, but Kaldellis questions maximalist claims of total collapse. He argues the empire's institutions and wars continued too steadily for a 50 percent die off.
Heraclius and the Persian War
Heraclius is credited with defeating Persia after the empire neared extinction. Yet his civil war helped create the crisis, and the victory was quickly overshadowed by Arab conquests.
Arab Conquests and Imperial Retrenchment
The seventh century brought the loss of Syria, Palestine, and Egypt. The empire survived by pulling back, militarizing its core, and slowly rebuilding after immense shock.
Greek Fire and Strategic Survival
Greek fire symbolizes the empire's ability to adapt militarily. Along with strong walls, fleets, and capable leadership, it helped Constantinople survive major sieges.
Iconoclasm Reconsidered
The icon controversy mattered deeply to certain rulers and church figures, but Kaldellis doubts it dominated popular life. He sees its historical scale as exaggerated by the surviving sources.
Cycles of Crisis and Recovery
The empire repeatedly endured sudden external shocks followed by long periods of consolidation and regrowth. Kaldellis argues the real story is not decline, but resilience.
The Eleventh Century Crisis
The empire's troubles after its Macedonian high point are attributed mainly to simultaneous external attacks. Normans, steppe raiders, and Seljuk Turks strained a system that had otherwise remained viable.
When Final Decline Began
Kaldellis places irreversible decline in the early fourteenth century, not earlier. By then, the loss of Asia Minor, civil wars, Serbian expansion, and plague had exhausted the empire's reserves.
Why the Empire Lasted So Long
Its durability came from credible public service, dense institutions, and a strong Roman Orthodox identity. Subjects complained and fought, but they generally preferred this order to the alternatives around them.
Lessons for Modern States
The conversation closes by drawing lessons about institutions, legitimacy, and the gap between rhetoric and action. Durable states, Kaldellis suggests, persuade people that power serves the public and then mostly make that true.
Human Nature and Historical Continuity
Kaldellis argues that humans across eras remain recognizably similar in ambition, fear, love, and conflict. What changes most is the cultural and technological setting that shapes those impulses.
Hope, Scale, and Historical Perspective
In closing, he uses long historical perspective to resist despair about the present. Compared with harsher eras, modern humanity still appears to be living through a broad period of flourishing.